DJ and Grinders Remodeling Adventure

Semi Final Kitchen Thoughts

2006-05-11T11:07:00.000-05:00

It's been a while since the last blog. Several developments have occurred that has diverted our attention from remodeling to The Great American Road Trip (GART - blog coming soon).

As far as the kitchen, below is the before and after shots. We still had plans for the hardwood floors but money is being diverted away from that to rescue the bathroom before it sinks in leaks.

First, the pink toilet sprung a leak every time we flushed so we COULD get a new toilet as pink is not our favorite color. But then we thought might as well get a new floor and replace the vanity and sink since the faucet drips. Too much work - fix the toilet.

BUT - last week we found MORE leaks beneath the sink. Now we have four rampaging leaks in the bathroom. Perhaps it would be best to veer away from the kitchen for a little while.

So - once The Trip Around America is over it's time to remodel the bathroom!

BEFORE

AFTER

We also had new blinds installed in the living room - I WISH I had before and after photos but alas. You would not believe how much these cost. They look way nicer then the photo. Of course I clean up everything and now see I FORGOT THE IRONING BOARD LOL!

Dry Wall Repair Nighmare

2006-04-11T11:16:00.000-05:00

DJ Here;

Okay, so last weekend I decided …I HAD to get the wall finished. On Friday, I sanded the damaged part down and applied the sealer coat. That was very easy—my only problem was trying to protect our new counters! I should have done the repairs BEFORE the counter was installed, but oh well. That part was very easy…but I found out after I applied the sealer coat that it had to dry for 3 hours—so the rest would have to wait until the next day.

On Saturday, I got out the Ready Patch and dove in. First….I have to say this was a nightmare job…I won’t go into great detail, because I just want to block it from my memory. My first clue that this was not starting out right was that okay I have a gallon container of this stuff and a large spreader. How to get the goop on the large spreader when it doesn’t fit in the can? When you can’t figure that out, you gotta know you will have problems. So, I scoop some of the patch on the spreader with a spoon and smear it on the wall. This stuff was THICK—and not very workable, not what I was expecting. I just could not work with that stuff—it was so messy and I didn’t have the muscle power to work with it!! Basically, this was a total nightmare. I figured out it was pretty much a “technique” of spreading it on and then scraping it off. The thing was, I did not figure out this technique until after I was almost finished! ANYWAY… the good part is that the wall is finished…but it is by no means CLOSE to being perfect. There are a lot of boo boos. After it was dry I did sand it down and that helped some. Then I put primer over the entire surface. It looks better than it did and we can live with it, but if I had it to do over, I would not have done it myself…I would have hired someone who knows what they are doing! Totally frustrating experience! UGH.

I’m also hoping it will look better after I paint it…THAT I can do!!

I finished painting yesterday. After some consultation with my former art student-daughter, we settled on two colors: “Ground Ginger” and “Grass Cloth.” (i.e beige and green). The key to success in any painting job is TAPE TAPE TAPE! The wider the tape the better—especially for somebody like me, who is a messy painter. It took me almost an hour to tape off the kitchen, but once I did, it made the painting really easy. I also spilled some on the floor—OOOPS!! Oh well, we’re getting new floors anyway!! Haha. Grinder helped me when I messed up where the green and beige meet—some of the green seeped over the edge—anyway, he evened it out really nice. AND..remember the part where I messed up on the drywell? Well, it doesn’t look THAT BAD….sorta rustic looking now. Also as you can see in the picture we got a really nice metal wall-hanging from Steinhafel’s, so that covers a lot of the mistakes too! I’m happy with it! HOORAY! In fact, I like the green color so much, Grinder gave his thumbs up to put it on one wall in the dining room! COOL.

Now all that is left is the floors…thank God we are not doing it ourselves!!! :-) I can’t wait for it to be all done!!

OK - Rods turn, here is my take on the entire thing.

DJ did a GREAT job. Yes - there are some spots that were not perfect but outstanding. After hearing a few "F" words I stopped what I was doing and offered my held and I will agree - it's pretty freaking hard to get drywall repair perfect. Perhaps if you have done in many times before but for someone that has never done it . . . .do not expect perfection.

Still, there are ways to cover blemishes up artistically and that is the route we went.

Below are before and after photos of the kitchen. All that is left are the Hardwood Floors.

Next week the new blinds are coming so we're pretty pumped on that one.

Stay tuned.

BEFORE

AFTER

Until next time - DJ and Grinder OUT!

Solatube and Eddie-Z all In One Day!!!

2006-03-17T16:19:00.000-06:00

It’s double contractor day as Lorene the Design Consultant from EddieZ's was coming in the morning to look into our window covering problem and reps from Solatube are going to install a 4 foot light tube at 1:00 in the afternoon.

Lorene arrives on time and I can see from the look on her face that I did not put enough salt on the driveway from yesterdays slush storm. But she makes it into our house and there are no pending law suits so so far so good.

We explain what we had in mind and she gives advice on good and bad. We’re going with 5, top to bottom blinds on the front windows and she does some prelim measuring on the front and side window.

Pretty much as expected and nothing to really write about. All I can say is the two meetings (in store and at home) with EddieZ has been a very good experience (I was not paid to say that, but will accept any cash tossed my way even cookies).

OH – by paying for the entire thing we received 5% off AND we’re getting a iPod shuffle. SWEET!!!

Tomorrow a guy is coming out to officially measure the area (they must give the sales reps defective tape measures or something) and then the typical 3-4 week wait.

As Lorene drives away I get a call, it’s Dave from Solatube and he is wondering if they could come out early as they are ahead of schedule – Awesome!! Come on down!!

Half-hour later they are here and in the kitchen whispering their secret things about how to getter done!

It’s 10:45

As Dave is on a step latter cutting a hole in our ceiling (a perfect circle I might point out!!)and his faithful but nameless sidekick has climbed up on our snow-covered roof and is doing something I have never seen before. Shoveling the roof!

He gets a path ON THE ROOF shoveled as Dave has cut a hole and is now going onto the roof.

Dave has cut the hole in the ceiling and is now going onto the roof. Seconds later we hear him (or his saw actually) coming through the roof.

I go into the kitchen and Milo is fascinated with the ceiling and will not take his eyes off the hole.

He gets a path ON THE ROOF shoveled as Dave has cut a hold and is now going on the roof. Seconds later we hear him (or his saw actually) coming through the roof.

It’s 11:00

Dave and sidekick are now assembling the inner tube and installing the base. All is going like clockwork.

We were given the decision on what kind of . . . fixture/covering (for lack of a better word) to have and we picked the one that looked like a prism that we saw at the home show. It’s a little more ($30?) but well worth it.

The bottom is installed and Dave is back on the roof putting in the glass mirror thing and BAM – it’s done.

It's 11:20

We sign the papers (10% Federal Tax Credit) and by 11:30 they are gone! 45 minutes!!

Dj and I look at it AGAIN and there is a 100% WOW factor!! It is awesome. I go out to the backyard to see what it looks like on the roof.

Back inside it lights up the kitchen. Totally 100% cool! For the next hour everytime we go into the kitchen we have big grins. At the moment I can not get a good photo.

I waited until 5:00 for this photo, it is still lighting up the kitchen but at least I don't see spots when I look at it how.

To say we're happy is an understatement and yes - that is blue sky! This is NOT the last Solatube we will ever purchase. There will be more!

Milo during construction. We actually think Milo is a Space alian and is taking notes.

In other news - we have decided NOT to have the hardwood inlay on the entrance of the front door as we would need to cover it on wet days. O'well, save some money for something else . . . .LIKE FOOD PERHAPS!

Until next update (things are moving NOW!!!)

Cheers!

Counter Installers, Plumbing and a Dry Wall Plan

2006-03-15T08:23:00.000-06:00

Where do I begin LOL. It was so long ago.

The Counter Fitters (installers installment) came and the two guys walk into the kitchen and mumble little secret things to each other creating a plan of action. The head guy looks around and I see a big question mark appear above his head in a word balloon as he looks at one section where the back splash is right under some tile.

He says - "OH OH" (never a good sign) and takes out his tape measure. He then says "I bet they didn't measure this right".

He comes back with the piece but nope! - does not fit. Never fear, he will grind the tile to the correct height.

Coming back with a sander he proceeds to fill the kitchen with white dust but all is good as it fits nice and snug.

The counters look pretty nice - not exactly the color I was expecting but I like the first look of them.

They set up shop outside on the driveway and take the big countertop out to prepare for sink installation.

He comes in and asked about the faucet and this is where I make my first mistake (more on this later). I give him the faucet and he measures the width and so forth so he can drill holes into the Quartz. No problem . . . .so far.

We decided to buy a new sink that was undermounted as it looks much better then the old overmounted sink. If you are spending this much on a countertop, get a good sink.

The sink is attached to the counter top and now the hard part (for them). Getting a 350 pound countertop into the house. The good part is it is MUCH easier then Granite which is not as sturdy.

It was a pretty good size struggle and I waited to take the photo as I did not want them to be blinded or surprised. What you see LOOKS like they are just flipping it in, it was not the case.

After getting the countertop on top of the counters it's smooth sailing from there. They put on the back splashes, do the caulking and it's all good.

They inform me about some counter problems with slumping and so forth but it is not very often that we have guest's laying on the floor so nobody but you readers will know that part of our counter has dropped 1/2 in the last 30 years! Shhhhh!

Now it's time for me to go to work with the plumbing.

Let me say this right from the beginning - I have never been a plumber, have never played a plumber on TV, have never WANTED to be a plumber.

I do want to save $80 to $100 an hour so I'm doing it myself. How hard can it be anyway. I did replace the faucet on our current sink so I'm ALMOST an expert already.

I crawl under the new shiny sink and start to work hooking up the hot and cold water to the spout attachments and tighten everything up. I turn on the water main and it is gushing all over. I do more tightening and it is leak proof.

I untwist myself out from under the sink and start to attach the faucet handles when, in horror, I see I have hooked the whole thing up backwards. CRAP!!! I crawl back under - unhook EVERYTHING, crawl out, turn the dang thing around, crawl under, reattach everything, tighten everything up and proudly put on the handles correctly.!! YEA!!

Sounds easy but unless you are pretzel man it's a pain in the ass!

I turn the main water on, put a bowl under the spout (the drain pipes are not attached yet) and proudly turn on the water on full force.

An odd thing happens. I hear the water, but I do not see the water. Milo the cat is beside me (as always) and lets out a chirp in horror as he is closer to the water then I am. It is gushing out the middle hole where the sprayer is supposed to be attached. I KNEW there was something I was forgetting.

Wait, the sprayer? Hmmmmm There is no hole in the countertop for the sprayer!!!! I look, at the counter and quickly tell myself I like the clean look of the counter WITHOUT the sprayer.

So - every thing is all good.

I take a break before I start the drain pipes and installing the new garbage disposal.

Break meaning it's time to install a new thermostat. This seems easy enough. I take off the old thermostat, label the 4 wires, install the new casing, attach the wires to the correct screws, click everything in place, play with the digital settings, turn on the heat, . . . . .and nothing happens.

OK - the instructions say I need to wait 5 minutes, I'll start the drain pipes.

Before I move on let me say something about son-in-laws.

If you ever have one and he is at a crossroads in life on which direction he wants to as far as profession goes, and he has a choice between a career path of becoming a police officer or one that would make him a home repair specialist - push him towards home repair.

I'm not going to go into detail on the exact problems we encountered while putting in the drain pipes but I will tell you some tips we learned.

Garbage disposals are 2 man jobs. Sure they CAN be done by one guy but they are pretty heavy and one lifting and one screwing them in is REALLY nice.

Another thing. In the photos you will notice we are replacing the steel pipes with PVC pipes. The reason is that PVC are more adoptable, you can saw them to correct length. With steel this is more of a problem.

Plumbing is a puzzle you have to put together and when you need a piece it is best to draw a picture BEFORE you go to Menards for the 2nd time and realize you do not know which side is male and which is female.

KNOW more then just the shape you need.

Also, make sure you have plumber putty AND if you are going the PVC route buy Pipe Thread Dope.

Pipe Thread Dope is what you put on the threads of PVC pipes, spread it thick BUT, it's not frosting so don't get carried away, and it's messy!

Another thing to be aware of. When attaching metal to PVC. PVC will screw onto metal great!, HOWEVER, metal screwing onto PVC seemed to have problems with leakage. Try at all costs to replace to a point

Four hours later we actually accomplished the task. It was not as hard as it sounded but when you are working with odd shapes and unknown problems it takes a little longer then normal. It would take 1/2 the time if I had to (and I will) go through it again.

Of course WHILE we are doing this, daughter has noticed that a seal in the toilet leaks. This was unknown to us as Milo knocked down some little soap things and having just flushed the toilet she reached down to pick them up and got splashed!.

ANOTHER PROJECT!!!

A NOTE from DJ.

Now that Rod has done his part struggling with the plumbing, its time for me to get busy and finish that darn wall! I did a google search and found instructions on how to repair damaged drywall. I came to the Zinsser web site. They give you detailed instructions on how to repair it, so I thought I would give it a try!

The first thing to do is sand everything down and make sure there are no pieces of drywall sticking up.

I bought a quart of the GARDZ high performance sealer-apparently this will seal the drywall and keep moisture out. You just put this on first with a brush or roller-seems easy enough!

Then I also need to buy some Ready Patch, which will supposedly fill in the gaps and make it smooth. Home Depot was out of the quart size and only had gallon containers. I don't think I need that much, so I'll go back in a couple days. Menards didn't have it-the guy was rude when I asked him about it. Anyway, I assume a person would have to have some type of skill to make sure this stuff goes on correctly.

This is the part that concerns me the most-whether I will be able to make this wall smooth again and not botch it up completely! We shall see. After you put the patch stuff on, you put on more of the sealer and you are done.

I also bought 2 quarts of Kilz 2 primer. I'm going to put this on the large portion of wall that wasn't damaged, but still has stains on it. In fact, I might just put it over everything to make it all uniform. When I'm done with that, I/we need to pick out some paint...I have no idea. I think I have a block now when it comes to color because I've looked at so many samples. I was thinking some sort of green before, but now that the counters are in, I'm not sure that will look right. I'm thinking either a sandy color or white now....

I will let you know how it goes...my plan is to finish the wall this
weekend.

So - there you have it - step one is complete. Counterstops are in and water is running.

BTW - the thermostat works fine. I had it on the wrong screen and once I programmed it to go back to the HOME screen the furnace clicked on. Piece of cake!!

Friday we are havign a Solatube installed into the kitchen (except we have a big snow storm coming) and also some blind guy is coming to talk to us. Not BLIND like can' see but blinds like curtains.

Until then
DJ and Grinder OUT!

Counter Installation Day - Morning

2006-03-13T09:54:00.000-06:00

It's Monday morning and crunch time. I’m taking off the old countertops. Which is not so hard as I thought it would be. Each corner is screwed in but not real tight. The only problem is getting to them but again. Not a real concern. But, as you can see I had a lot of help.

Once all unscrewed just lift them up. The yare surprisingly heavy.

The counter with the sink is another matter. Shut off the water because you have to do a little plumbing. Also shut off the electricity to the garbage disposal

Once those two things are done you need to take the electric off the disposal, then there is a mounting assembly you have to twist off (with a hammer and big screw driver).

Once it’s all taken out make sure you put rags into any of the open pipes so sewer gas does not flow into the house.

So - I have un-plumbed the sink (that’s a technical term), now it’s time to take the BIG counter off.

I remove everything and try to take the sink out of the counter – it won’t budge. I took off the 10 screws that were screwed into the wood to make sure the sink would not SOMEHOW fall onto the floor or something but it is not moving an inch.

Well, only one thing to do. I lift the entire counter off INCLUDING sink and see that not ONLY were there 10 screws. It is also glued in place.

WHAT! Is this earthquake proof? Were they really THAT worried that the sink MIGHT move. Good God. 10 screws AND glue. If that sink somehow fell out of the counter I’m pretty sure I have far greater concerns then a sink on the floor.

So the counter AND sink still in place are now on the back porch awaiting an earthquake so they will come unattached.

On a side note - notice the wall paper behid the big counter where the side splas on the old counter. LOL

NEXT time DJ says she wants to have the wall finished BEFORE the new counters are installed . . . . . .NEXT TIME!

It's time to go shopping.

The disposel was pretty old and 1/2 HP. the lowest you want to go in Horse Power is 1/2 HP and I actually do not think you can find a smaller one.

I head to Sears to get a Kenmore In-Sink-Erator but Sears does not open until 10:00. On to Home Depot.

I find what I’m looking for (In-Sink-Erator 444, 3/4 Horse Power, HAR HAR!!!!) and on a spur of a moment I pick up Digital Thermostat. This will go next to my unopened Motion Activated light switch for a future project.

ANYWAY – since we’re getting a new undermounted sink I need to buy a sink Strainer. You see sinks do not come with that middle part – just a hole on the bottom, you need to buy the part that fits into the bottom of the sink.

Well – it SEEMS that Home Depot had a SALE this weekend on stainless steel strainers and they were all sold out.

WHAT? They felt they needed a SALE? Yea – I bet that really brought in the crowds. People must have been buying dozens, you never know when you might need four or five.

So now I have to go to Menards.

I look for the strainers near the sinks. HA! No no, they would not want to put them NEAR the sinks. I ask and am taken to the wall of strainers that all look exactly alike but for different prices. I buy the one with the best packaging and instructions in english.

I also buy some plumbers putty and a big jar of salted peanuts. mmmmmm Plumbers putty and salted peanuts.

And that is the morning – now I’m waiting.

A couple things you should think about.

Before you shut off the water – brush your teeth. I ha to shut the entire house water off because the shut off valves in the kitchen only work 98% which is 2% not enough.

Until later
Rod

Counterfitters

2006-02-24T09:28:00.000-06:00

Thursday we were counterfitted!

Step 2 of getting new counters is getting templated. The whole process took perhaps 20 minutes but then we started looking at my audio system and since the guy was a former bass player for Johnny Law and me being an old metal head myself we talked about LFS (Low Frequency Stimulation).

I'm suppose to mention that he is single - not that I know his name.

ANYWAY - the guy comes in and lays his things on the counter and sticks stuff to the wall and takes photos.

He explained that in the old days they used cardboard and cut out templates, now they take snap shots and draw lines in the digital photos from dot to dot with their software.

Simple.

Now we wait for 2 to 3 weeks and when we get the call we will set a date for installation.

BUT FIRST. We have to take the old counters off, and uninstall the plumbing. This is making me a LITTLE nervous as the last time I was a plumber I had some problem with that faucet shutting off completely.

I'm also thinking of having an actual plumber do the install as what we have now is not that plastic pipe but metal and MIGHT be a fit problem with a new size sink.

Speaking of floors - take a look at this. Puzzel Floors!!! What if you lose that last piece!!

Until next time!

Waiting Game

2006-02-20T12:36:00.000-06:00

We received our Line of Credit on the 18th and within 2 hours were at Drexel getting the down payment on the countertops. We had to purchase a new under mount sink so add in an additional $350 to the already exploded estimate. Still it'll look great!

Thursday a rep is coming out to template the area and then about 3 weeks for the template to be turned in an Onix countertop.

In the meantime we came up with a problem for the front windows. We took into account our cat when we looked at the shades for each of the 6 windows. Each shade would have a speciel cord that would not tempt Milo. However, we did not take into account the fact that Milo likes to jump and cling onto things.

For instance, one day last summer DJ was in the front garden and Milo was looking at her through the screen door. He has this sudden urge to get out and takes a giant leap into the middle of the screen, grabbing on with all 20 claws.

As we (and Milo) found out the screen was on tight and still clinging with 20 toes the entire screen falls backwards with Milo still attached.

This is now in our minds when we think of putting in $2000 shades on 6 windows.

Hmmmmmm! No Plan "B" as of yet.

Wood floors are on hold until it gets warmer and Solatube middle March.

The First Shots Have Been Fired

2006-02-07T09:51:00.000-06:00

Dj reporting here from the kitchen—remodeling ground zero.

Well, its only been five years and we have finally decided that we need to make this place our own. You see, this house used to belong to my folks, Grinder and I bought it from my dad about a year ago. My mom passed away a couple years ago, and since then I really couldn’t bring myself to make too many changes to the house…but now its TIME!! The kitchen is not really too bad, but it needs to be updated. It had sort of a “pinkish” wallpaper and border that just had to go, and butcher block type counters, which were great in the 70’s—not so much now. Oh yeah and the floor is white outlined with pinkish beige squares. We decided that we would like to replace that with hardwood floors.

So I decided to start with the kitchen wallpaper. There was a border that went all around the top of the kitchen walls. The border actually came off pretty easily. I took out my trusty squirt bottle and got the border wet. The top layer just peeled right off, leaving a real thin brown paper. I saturated the brown paper with more warm water and was able to easily peel the rest off. The only disappointing thing was that the paper left a sort of light brownish yellowish color. I was hoping that all I would have to do is wash it off and not repaint that part of the wall. But I might have to—we’ll see.

There is only one wall in the kitchen that had this pink wallpaper on it—thank goodness. The part with the wallpaper is inset (hard to explain) and then it continues on behind the sink and counter. I used my squirt bottle of warm water on the paper. Again, the top pink part of the wallpaper came off pretty easily, but instead of just leaving ONE layer of brown paper, there were THREE layers of brown paper.

I think whenever my mom changed the wallpaper, she must have always just taken off the top layer and left the backing on it. Anyway, after I got the pink part off, I tugged on the brown paper a little and it was so old, it tore off — and behind it was this bright yellow paint with dried glue on it. Yuk. So…I tried it behind the sink, and it was coming off, but then the drywall paper also started to come off in parts.

In the sections where the drywall came off, I remembered there used to be a lovely (not!) brown mosaic tile. I guess that when the tile was removed it must have just been wallpapered over or something—I have no idea. I will definitely have to fix that damaged part—yikes! It took me about 4 hours to remove the larger section of wallpaper completely—and it was a struggle, but I think I got it all. One thing I noticed is that the wallpaper goes behind the baseboard so, I’ll have to take the base board off and I’m not sure how to do that without breaking it. Also, since we are getting new countertops, I’m wondering if I should wait until those are installed before finishing/repairing/painting, because I don’t know how high the new back splash will be—there might be more wallpaper or damage behind what is there now.

Hmmmm……so I’m sort of at a standstill right now with a bright yellow wall with brown stains on it. LOVELY!! LOL As God as my witness I will NEVER put wallpaper on a wall. It’s a pain to take it off!!!! But I know this is gonna look really good when we are done!!!!!!!. (I hope!)

Quick note from Grinder. Already things are changing.

We had decided on Vendura countertops - the prelim estimate was about $2000 and we liked the look. All was good but there was always something in the back of DJ's mind saying we should keep our eyes open.

Last weekend we went to Drexels and fell in love with a new MORE expensive countertop. Sure instead of $66 a sq foot it was more like $100, but it was too late. We would never be happy with the "old" plain Vendura counters. No estimate yet but now we won't be happy with the Vendura. they just did not have the color we wanted. We would forever say - "what if".

Curses!!

Why We Got To This Point

2006-02-04T15:59:00.000-06:00

We live in a ranch style house that was owned by my wife (DJ) parents. A few years ago they were getting to the point where keeping up the house and yard were getting too much and they sold it to us.

It's a very nice house with the backyard sitting on the edge of a Nature Preserve.

But here is the problem. It has never felt like DJ's house. It feels like her parents house.

So - what do to? We could always look for another house but that involves moving and geez, we're on a nature preserve with deer, raccoon, hawks, birds galore and all sorts of woods creatures. We are in a zone that feels like the back woods on one side of the house and suburban neibhrhood on the other side.

After talking about it we decided to do some remodeling and this is where the blog comes in.

We're not huge do it yourselfers. We depend on new knowledge to get us though things, nothing passed down from childhood, every step is another step into the swampland of new ideas and never remodeled before adventures.

Therefore, the major things are being contracted out, but what you will see is what has to be done by us is still substantial.

Here is the plan as I know it today

Stage 1.
Living room - new window coverings for front window - prelim estimate $1800
Kitchen - more light - 14inch SolaTube lighting - prelim estimate $770
Kitchen - new hardwood floor - prelim estimate $3800 but does not include inlay in front doorway add $1000?
Kitchen - new Vendura counters - prelim estimate $2200 - still working on colors
Deck - increase size of deck by 5 feet to make it usable - prelim estimate unknown

Stage 2
Back rooms - Increase the size of the back windows that look into the woods - French door? Just larger windows? Still investigating - prelim estimate $ 3 - $8000.
Bathroom - new counters and possible Solatube lighting - prelim estimate unknown

Stage 3
Make basement into usable living space - prelim estimate $5000???
Increase size of dining room by removing the middle part of the only load baring wall in the house - prelim estimate unknown.

That’s all at the moment - no big time frame. We're obtaining a Line of Credit soon.

Stay tuned. You can subscribe to this blog with the RSS feed or just check back from time to time. We won't be on a daily update or not even weekly but we will keep you abreast of our ups and downs.

DJ & Grinder